Listen on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Podcast Addict, and RSS. In this episode, we talk about white nationalism. Participants: Yassine, Walt Bismarck, TracingWoodgrains. Links: Why I'm no longer a White Nationalist (The Walt Right) The Virulently Unapologetic Racism of "Anti-Racism"
Part One: The instinct to ban people from any dialogue based on objectionable views serves to silo the disfavored person with other exiled people who will encourage increasingly extreme positions with each other. Thus, despite my distaste for the overt racism in your early work, I thought it was beneficial to bring you into a center-left platform to discuss your ideas.
Part Two: Your approach seems to be that White people should band together as an interest group to advocate for White interests. The two issues I have with this is (1) I don’t think it is an effective approach, and (2) there is a long and ugly history surrounding race-based politics and I think the current “silo-ization” of the internet will pull any “racist-lite” groups towards more extreme positions.
My most important interests are race-neutral. I have much more in common with a black Judge who plays Dungeons and Dragons in my neighborhood, than I do with a Wisconsin farmer whose ancestors came from Aberdeen Scotland (where some of my ancestors come from). Trying to form a White interest group will cut across these other more useful groupings.
I’m starting to forget much of the conversation, but I thought you stated or implied that Africans and African-Americans are less intelligent and less conscientious than Western Europeans. If that is true (and I am not sure it is), the differences are small enough to not be useful. Given the limited value of such evidence and the tendency to use evidence of racial differences to justify horrific against a racial group I am suspicious of any person emphasizing these differences.
I'm going to write a broader essay about this, but
>Your approach seems to be that White people should band together as an interest group to advocate for White interests
Sometimes. Not always. When we are attacked as White people to such an extent that race becomes hypersalient, as we were in 2014, I advocate doing this. But it's not a permanent thing. Coalitions shift and conditions change.
I advocate something I call "Intersectional Identitarianism" in which race is just one salient factor among a number of things that will influence how you define yourself in relation to various groups.
I'll write an essay about this soon.
>If that is true (and I am not sure it is), the differences are small enough to not be useful.
It is true. The mean black IQ is about 85 compared to the white average of 100.
The difference is very material given that IQ is hugely predictive of overall life outcomes. HBD, if true, completely undermines the most common argument for affirmative action (systemic racism).
But HBD is not polite to talk about, so it isn't the thing I emphasize. Still, if you don't understand HBD you can't accurately understand the world.
I think you might find this discussion I had with a Calvinist theologian interesting:
You aren't merely rude, and I didn't call you a sociopath (I said you had the affect of one). What you are calling "autism" in yourself isn't autism. It's narcissism, ego, self-concern, unwillingness to admit fault, glibness, superficiality, and a complete inability to see how you come across to other people. Maybe you don't have antisocial personality disorder, maybe you do, but the way you move through the world means nobody should ever trust you.
This is the internet. Not the world. I absolutely do not behave online as I do in the world. "Move through the world" haha dude this is some anonymous text on the internet
Couldn't take the guest seriously after they played that gross, juvenile Lion King parody song (sorry, his "art") and he refused to disavow it. I don't think he's nearly as insightful or amusing as he thinks he is. Oh wow, you date Jewish girls now, huh? Fascinating. What was that remark you were about to make about Sydney Sweeney?
Thank you Trace as always for being the most interesting person in the room.
Actually, I’m that chubby Hispanic girl in your sociology class that burned your ass so bad that you’re bringing it up multiple times on podcasts years later.
Look dude, I gave you 90 minutes of my time, and I came away not liking you. I understand you’re an “autist” or whatever, and likely don’t understand the value of soft attributes (which happens to be what sunk DeSantis), but at the end of the day that’s your problem and not mine. Adios, muchachito.
I think there is value in getting people to state their views instead of walling them off. I was still left with a bad taste in my mouth.
Why?
Part One: The instinct to ban people from any dialogue based on objectionable views serves to silo the disfavored person with other exiled people who will encourage increasingly extreme positions with each other. Thus, despite my distaste for the overt racism in your early work, I thought it was beneficial to bring you into a center-left platform to discuss your ideas.
Part Two: Your approach seems to be that White people should band together as an interest group to advocate for White interests. The two issues I have with this is (1) I don’t think it is an effective approach, and (2) there is a long and ugly history surrounding race-based politics and I think the current “silo-ization” of the internet will pull any “racist-lite” groups towards more extreme positions.
My most important interests are race-neutral. I have much more in common with a black Judge who plays Dungeons and Dragons in my neighborhood, than I do with a Wisconsin farmer whose ancestors came from Aberdeen Scotland (where some of my ancestors come from). Trying to form a White interest group will cut across these other more useful groupings.
I’m starting to forget much of the conversation, but I thought you stated or implied that Africans and African-Americans are less intelligent and less conscientious than Western Europeans. If that is true (and I am not sure it is), the differences are small enough to not be useful. Given the limited value of such evidence and the tendency to use evidence of racial differences to justify horrific against a racial group I am suspicious of any person emphasizing these differences.
I'm going to write a broader essay about this, but
>Your approach seems to be that White people should band together as an interest group to advocate for White interests
Sometimes. Not always. When we are attacked as White people to such an extent that race becomes hypersalient, as we were in 2014, I advocate doing this. But it's not a permanent thing. Coalitions shift and conditions change.
I advocate something I call "Intersectional Identitarianism" in which race is just one salient factor among a number of things that will influence how you define yourself in relation to various groups.
I'll write an essay about this soon.
>If that is true (and I am not sure it is), the differences are small enough to not be useful.
It is true. The mean black IQ is about 85 compared to the white average of 100.
The difference is very material given that IQ is hugely predictive of overall life outcomes. HBD, if true, completely undermines the most common argument for affirmative action (systemic racism).
But HBD is not polite to talk about, so it isn't the thing I emphasize. Still, if you don't understand HBD you can't accurately understand the world.
I think you might find this discussion I had with a Calvinist theologian interesting:
https://newaltright.substack.com/p/episode-15-christian-right-vs-nietzschean
Racial discussion starts at 1:17:55
What does HBD stand for
human biodiversity
You might find interesting my post "That Time I Went to the White Nationalist Meeting..."
https://alexanderturok.substack.com/p/that-time-i-went-to-the-white-nationalist
Turok is hilarious, I say that as someone who is clearly being poked at in his pieces. Check them out.
Well done pushing back, Trace.
Walt has the affect of a sociopath.
Oh fuck off.
I stand corrected. You're not antisocial in the slightest.
How do you react when someone calls you a sociopath, when you clearly aren't? Is every single rude person a sociopath?
You aren't merely rude, and I didn't call you a sociopath (I said you had the affect of one). What you are calling "autism" in yourself isn't autism. It's narcissism, ego, self-concern, unwillingness to admit fault, glibness, superficiality, and a complete inability to see how you come across to other people. Maybe you don't have antisocial personality disorder, maybe you do, but the way you move through the world means nobody should ever trust you.
This is the internet. Not the world. I absolutely do not behave online as I do in the world. "Move through the world" haha dude this is some anonymous text on the internet
Couldn't take the guest seriously after they played that gross, juvenile Lion King parody song (sorry, his "art") and he refused to disavow it. I don't think he's nearly as insightful or amusing as he thinks he is. Oh wow, you date Jewish girls now, huh? Fascinating. What was that remark you were about to make about Sydney Sweeney?
Thank you Trace as always for being the most interesting person in the room.
LOL of course you're a Midwesterner
Actually, I’m that chubby Hispanic girl in your sociology class that burned your ass so bad that you’re bringing it up multiple times on podcasts years later.
Look dude, I gave you 90 minutes of my time, and I came away not liking you. I understand you’re an “autist” or whatever, and likely don’t understand the value of soft attributes (which happens to be what sunk DeSantis), but at the end of the day that’s your problem and not mine. Adios, muchachito.
impressive self own
Keep thinking about me, babes <3